So I love that so many of the women whose blogs I follow got married at around the same time as me; it has been wonderful watching us all negotiate the early days of marriage together. Thanks to this syncronicity, it seems that lots of ladies have been talking, lately, about how it feels to get married (see: the transcendence debate), and how it feels to be married (see the “wife: does it or does it not need to be reclaimed?” debate). All of this is awesome, since I am a big fan of thinking through stuff that we might otherwise take for granted.
Here’s what I do not think is awesome, though: the shitty ways in which we assume that the differences in our experiences indicate some sort of hierarchy of authenticity in marriage or strength of partnership. I have to say that I was looking forward to moving out of the wedding world in part to escape the passive aggressive judgementalism that pervades it (see this rant here for my feelings on the matter). I am shocked and appalled to see that life on the married side of things still has a healthy dose of ladies judging each other in really quite useless ways.
What am I talking about? Let’s see. Those of us who experienced transcendent or huge moments at our weddings are: a) naive religious fools; b) space cadets who clearly hadn’t paid attention to what we were committing to until we walked down the aisle; c) brainwashed romantics who were not partners before we married.
Those of us who did not experience transcendent moments at our weddings are: a) superficial bridezillas who didn’t take the meaning of our weddings seriously enough; b) bimbos who don’t actually understand what we’re getting into; c) women getting married for the wrong reasons.
Those of us who think that being married has felt distinctly different, and in need of unpacking, are: a) wishy washy ladies who were not truly invested in their relationships until they got married; b) backwards women who buy into gendered stereotypes about marriage when we all know that we live in a post-feminist world; c) morons who didn’t understand what we were getting into.
Those of us who think that being married feels the same as dating/cohabitating are: a) vapid women who don’t take their decisions very seriously or think very deeply about their lives; b) dodgy ladies who don’t understand what marriage means; c) crappy wives.
Listen, I know that it’s a weird thing to blog about our personal lives. We put ourselves out there in very intimate ways in an attempt to connect with like-minded people. And sometimes this whole process can make us deeply insecure about our decisions; if someone that seems smart out there in the blogosphere says they had the exact opposite experience that we did, we feel insecure, like they are attacking our choices or our feelings. I don’t know why we do this: we’re all smart and thoughtful and capable of understanding that we live different lives and that there are a million reasons as to why every single one of our marriages is a little bit different. Rather than appreciating how incredible it is that we manage to find really profound commonalities among our diverse lives, we focus on our differences and lick our imaginary wounds as though another woman’s experience is meant to be a personal insult.
And let’s be honest, some of us are writing as though our particular experiences are reflective of our being better women and better wives than everyone else. We may not realise we’re doing it, but it comes across in the tone of our posts. If I read one more thing that says that “we didn’t feel any difference with marriage, because, you know, we were already PARTNERS for YEARS” I may scream–yes, indeed, those of us who felt something change with marriage were clearly all shotgun weddings. That’s as bad as those of us on the other side who make comments that we did feel a marked difference because we took our ceremony and our commitment soooo seriously, as though anyone who feels differently just got drunk and stuttered through their vows. Come on, man. Let’s be serious here.
I don’t want to argue against critical thinking; personally, my blog has been a useful place for me to unpack some of the stuff about weddings and marriage that grates on my last nerve, and as such I am a big fan of us all having our opinions, and us having them strongly. I think we need to own our own experiences unequivocally, but to still take a step back and think about how we write what we write. We also need to listen to each other sympathetically. We need to find ways to connect with each other through our reflections that don’t involve passing judgement, or trying to figure out who has it right and who has it wrong. A good example of this was the recent post I wrote about name changing; I wrote it mostly to be silly, but I was inspired by the discussion that broke out in the comments. Women on both sides of the debate engaged with each other in intelligent, critical ways, but without making broad, hurtful generalizations on one side or taking things needlessly personally on the other. So I have faith that we can do this.
I feel like this whole project of blogging about our weddings and our marriages is meant to inspire ourselves and each other to think a little bit more critically or to listen a little bit more deeply to our experiences and the experiences of women who we respect. The passive aggressive bullshit, born out of a sort of “oh my goodness, what if the internet tells me I’m not doing marriage right?” insecurity, doesn’t really help us get there at all. Let’s give each other the benefit of the doubt. Solidarity, sister.
Personally, I love the differences between the blogs I read, and the ones that connect me to their thoughts; well those are just icing on the cake. No matter the flavour, thoughtful conversation built around partnership and love is needed in this world. My husband and were partners from day one; that’s how we do things. But, marriage (not the wedding because we did that on the cheap) made us feel so connected to the past and showed us what we wanted for the future. Having both come from ‘broken’ homes, marriage took on a new meaning.
You are gifted with words for sure, and again, I love your honesty and directness.
I was motivated to write my own blog post because of how interesting I found reading about others’ experiences, and because I feel a need to figure out the best way for me to take this whole thing that is sharing a life with someone else forward. Lord knows I tried my best not to be judgemental, just setting out the whys and wherefores of my particular experience, but I suppose it can be hard when you’re reflecting on the path that you’ve ultimately chosen, not to make it seem like it’s better than anyone else’s.
I have also seen some of the venomous finger-pointing that I guess you’re referring to, and I too was not deeply impressed. I sincerely hope that my post didn’t come across that way, but I guess it’s an issue that people have really strong feelings on. I hope the debate can continue in a constructive way though…
I should have put a disclaimer on top that I was not pointing the finger at anyone specifically; especially not folks I link to.
I feel like we’re all having really important conversations and there have got to be ways to have them that don’t involve so many ruffled feathers.
Almost after each post I feel that I have to thank you for putting into words things that I think but can’t really say. So thank you, again!
I have no opinion in the ‘reclaiming wife’ debate, and I honestly don’t really get how this has gotten to be a debate at all. It’s not like there’s only one way to live one’s life.
Well said!
Very well said. In particular, so much more data, so many unforeseen events wait down the pike, that any overweening self-satisfaction at this point risks the big life niener niener that we all dread.
Yes!!!
thank you.
These moments of self-doubt after reading other people’s descriptions of transcendence/love/marriage/wifely visions + versions….definitely feels familiar.
I’ve actually been thinking about trying to cut myself off from some of the blogs I used to love in the pre-wedding days (but then what would I use to procrastinate at work?
)
I think your title nailed it — “Why are we all so insecure?” My sense is that most of the condescending “well, if you didn’t feel the way I felt, you’re clearly doing it wrong” talk about marriage and wifehood comes from a place of deep insecurity. We want to prove to ourselves that we didn’t screw it up, and unfortunately a lot of that seems to involve proving that other people *did* screw it up.
There are things about marriage that I feel are different for us, emotionally, and during the ceremony I felt what can best be described as joy. But overall, for me, marriage is a lot like being engaged, and I didn’t experience the same moment of transcendence you described so beautifully. The fact that we’ve had different experiences is not a bad reflection on either one of us. We’re different people. It’s OK for us to have different reactions to things! So in addition to giving others the benefit of the doubt, I’d say we should give ourselves the benefit of the doubt as well. Just because someone else has experienced something differently doesn’t mean you did it wrong, or that you have to defend your own experience.
So very well said! Because I’m so completely fascinated by the dynamics of marriage and how different individuals and couples experience it, I was feeling this need to get to the root of why it is so very different for everyone. I spent a really ridiculous amount of time thinking about it, and finally I realized/decided that it just doesn’t matter.
Our weddings and marriages are our own and no amount of analysis is going to answer the big questions about them.
That said, I hope we all keep talking about it and do so in a thoughtful, respectful way. Because like I said, it is indeed fascinating.
Totally agreed, Michele. I feel like we should all keep talking about our experiences, because they are, as you say, fascinating, and this is huge stuff, and we do learn a lot from each other! But I agree that that is perhaps a more useful project than trying to find the big generalization that explains everyone and everything.
And similarly right on, PC–I like when we can listen to each other without doubting ourselves. I like to think that I aspire to write about my own experiences in such a way that folks can get something from reading about them no matter what, whether they identify totally with what I have been through, or if they felt the total opposite.
And LPC, yeah, I feel like it’s been tough for me to write my reflections on these first months of marriage, which feel Huge and Important, while not assuming a position of arrogance, as though I know what the next 50 years have in store for us. I have only figured out what I know now.
Anyway I should mention that throughout all this hooplah, I tend to feel pretty blessed; like I referenced the name changing post above, I don’t feel like I’ve EVER had to deal with discussions on my own blog that ended up passive aggressive or judgemental. I am lucky that an awesome group of women congregate around here and I always feel like I learn and expand my thinking from what folks post. So cool.
Right on, A. You articulated exactly how I felt when Meg’s post (http://www.apracticalwedding.com/2009/10/reclaiming-word-wife.html) went viral and people were accusing her of hating women and babies just because she said she didn’t want to be a stay-at-home mom and drive a minivan. I felt terrible for her. But I think that you’ve created a really great space here where people do have polite but interesting dialogues about the meaning of marriage. Short version: well done, you.
Thanks for this! You took the words right out of my mouth (or brain)…
I found the tone of the various debates you mention a little disheartening b/c that forum & commenters until that point had been so non-judgmental and inclusive about the wedding planning process – which had really helped me personally in preparing for my trip to the altar. (And against my better judgment, I may have even waded into those debates in a clumsy & futile attempt to plead that all versions of weddings/marriages were great… different strokes for different folks, blah blah blah.)
I do feel like we all need to figure out a new language for talking about wedding/marriage in helpful ways – or at least I do. These discussions can be a little hairy even with my own close friends. There’s got to be a way to discuss one’s own experiences and preferences – clearly, strongly, even colorfully – without provoking a defensive reaction in others. But there also need to be a way to call out those narratives that are clearly loaded with normative judgment – those stories that are really intended to proselytize a certain way of life. I don’t know… but it is a fascinating topic.
Amen sister!
Right on! More sharing of our unique experiences, less judging!
First of all, well said, and you know I agree, etc.
Next: It’s interesting, this idea that it’s scary to hear opinions and experiences that are not reflective of your own, because it makes you question yourself. Frankly, I don’t like it.
I (obviously) get a lot of emails from a lot of women (on top of comments) talking about their experiences as newlyweds. and a lot of them don’t line up with my experiences, but I recognize them as honest, and as things that might have been. Did I cry in the car as a new-new-newlywed? Nope. But can I imagine it happening? Yep. So, mostly I feel that the more information I have about how other women are experiencing these things, the more tools I have to unpack my own experience. And that’s rad. And I think we’re all taking steps to get to a good place with all this talking. Because *yes* the minivan-gate was a mess, but when I started talking about weddings it was a mess too. Nasty comments, disagreeable people, and on and on. New perspectives shake us up… and in my case that’s exactly what I’m aiming for. I’m always smarter shaken.
It’s a bit like when I mentioned I was going to a fancy wedding and STOKED. (I love love love fancy). And someone told me to enjoy, just not to let it make me feel bad about my own wedding. And I was sort of floored. Because I can’t imagine not thinking my best wedding was the best wedding ever, but I also can’t imagine not adoring weddings that are totally different from mine. Because the secret is, I love weddings. Just like I adore opinions of all sorts.
If that makes sense.
Meg, hon, you know I’m right there with you, right? I agree that there is something hindering our ability to learn from each other when we question ourselves every time we hear that someone has done or felt something differently from us.
“So, mostly I feel that the more information I have about how other women are experiencing these things, the more tools I have to unpack my own experience.”
Yes yes yes yes exactly! This is what I hope we can all aspire to when writing about this stuff and then discussing it on each other’s blogs.
and @TNM
APW has been supportive and happy as long as *you’ve known it.* It took a whole lot of work to get it to that place, and to build that community. Remember, I’m now 1.5 years into the wedding discussion, and I’m starting from the ground up building the newlywed discussion. Though, the process is moving much much faster this time, right people, right skills. Happy.
Takes a strong person to sustain these discussions. It’s just as bad if you have children. If not worse. Voices all around insisting on the One Way. The proverbial big tent is probably the best chance at actual communal learning. Sometimes tempting to fold it up and creep away in the night, but those who have the inner steel to stand and continue the conversation, I salute you.
Dude, I have mentioned the whole “no children until I acquire a new set of parents” thing, yes? So I am with you on the kids = more snitty judgemental opinions thing. It gives me hives to even thing about it.
I liked reading this, it’s well written and thought provoking. I’m not sure why weddings, relationships, babies, etc., are grounds for competition. But it’s nice to see it discussed.
Yeah, I see what you’re saying about the insecurity…people definitely seemed to feel judged by each other on the APW post. I don’t really know if I see that much judgment in people’s posts, though. Maybe it’s just me, but it seems fine to say that you felt really different because you took your ceremony seriously or you didn’t feel that different because you had been living together for years. That person is still talking about themselves and their choices, right? We need to all chill!! I totally agree with you that it’s a very sensitive subject for all of us and that maybe our reactions are coming from a place of feeling unsure about how to make sense of things. This doesn’t mean that we should get all judge-y on each other, but at the same time we cannot be walking on egg shells and still trying to have a blunt and honest conversation.
I think a lot of times people react to how something is said, more than what is said.
Most people can deal with knowing someone feels differently. What they can’t deal with is feeling that a writer holds their choices in contempt or doesn’t even understand their choices.
It takes a lot of skill to say you don’t like something without coming off like the choice is invalid. It’s the sweeping statements that get a writer into trouble.
Of course, even if you are a silver-tongued devil when it comes to writing, there is no guarantee all your readers have good reading comprehension.
LPC said:
“Very well said. In particular, so much more data, so many unforeseen events wait down the pike, that any overweening self-satisfaction at this point risks the big life niener niener that we all dread.”
LPC, you took the thought right out of my head.
It is very hard sometimes at our age to know when to bite our tongue. Very strange to read the thoughts of people who are passing through what we passed through only a minute ago.
Except it wasn’t only a minute ago. Otherwise, how could we be sitting here thinking about all the stuff they haven’t been hit with yet when we read about their concerns?
At a recent 50th birthday party for a friend, a (gorgeous) 70-year-old woman said – “Wait until you’re 70.”
That sums it up.
I didn’t mean for this conversation to be all about APW, although Meg is one of the folks starting a lot of conversations around here. But I think it’s worth remembering that APW has become a very iconic blog in this little corner of the blogosphere, and thus I think that with it, in particular, people put a lot on it. And sometimes lose sight of the fact that Meg is like, a person, with opinions, etc. Because she’s also this symbol/icon of the “sane bride” and now “sane wife”. I think that’s why things get so damn touchy over there, but I’m not sure that it’s fair to anyone.
Seriously, A, please teach me your ways.
A few of my favorite bloggers got married a couple of months before I did (2.5 weeks ago), and I adored the posts about how it felt to be married right before my own wedding. I got to the point where I couldn’t look at a single other person’s wedding (as far as design/decorating/vision was concerned). Reading about other blogger’s real emotional experiences really put a focus in the forefront of my mind for my wedding day… that being grounded and present was the most important part of the day. I knew that my experience would be different than others. After 17 months of looking into the future towards the wedding day, I was able to be incredibly present on my wedding day. It was incredible. I also found great relief in hearing about the things that “went wrong” during the wedding, and how not a big deal it was at all. I loved that, and needed that, to gain perspective on the event.
Thank you so much for your frankness and for having deep discussions on your blog. I haven’t really gotten a chance to reflect on being a wife yet, it is just too fresh, but I am very grateful to go back through your blog and read other intelligent woman’s opinions.
Solidarity sister. You really say the things that make people reflect. I’ll admit to just posting about inspirational things, feelings (and of course fashion these days), but have been tepid about posting anything deeper. Judgmental comments sucks.
Who are other people to judge? When they do, well, hopefully we can see the constructive critique, reflect, and put the rest in the deleted comments bin.
Hi, I just stumbled upon your blog and this post demanded a comment (more of an affirmation).
The thing I have loved about discovering wedding blogs is the huge variety of people and experiences out there.
My family is very judgmental and seems to think I am the crazy, wild child who will regret not having a “traditional” wedding, even though compared to many of the blogs I’ve been reading make my wedding look traditional. But I love the openness in much of the wedding blogging world to different ideas and ways of doing things. It has been so comforting to me.
I feel there are people out there who would understand who I have never even met, and it makes the world feel a little closer and more loving.
It reminds me that life is not about competition–in weddings or anything really (unless that is what you make it about). Things can be good and true and be completely different. I don’t need to compare everything and grade them on some arbitrary scale of awesomeness.